Signification Markunda ?
- Thread starter itri2002
- Start date
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Markunda - de mar(n)kunda: la joie de la coccinelle
Source| L'officiel Des Prénoms Berbères - Edition Bilingue Français-Kabyle, Naït-Zerrad, Kamal
Mar (MR): comme dans TUMRT: joie / ou =>
être béni, s'accroitre, prospérer sous l'effet d'une bénédiction
kunda/kundawa(Ayt Izdeg, dic. Ta-Fr M.Taifi): la coccinelle
Markunda - de mar(n)kunda: la joie de la coccinelle
Source| L'officiel Des Prénoms Berbères - Edition Bilingue Français-Kabyle, Naït-Zerrad, Kamal
Mar (MR): comme dans TUMRT: joie / ou =>
être béni, s'accroitre, prospérer sous l'effet d'une bénédiction
kunda/kundawa(Ayt Izdeg, dic. Ta-Fr M.Taifi): la coccinelle
Amastan13
New Member
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Azul fell-ak a gma Yidir,
The book of Kamel Nait-Zerrad is interesting, however, I am a little skeptical in the etymology he gave about that particular name. When one works on names, he has to check whether his explanation conforms to some etymological patterns, for example, if we say that "It Mnad" is an ethnonym, then we have to check whether there are other Amazigh ethnonyms which have the same pattern (eg. starting with Ayt / Iyt / It / At, etc.).
Nait-Zerrad's etymology seems plausible, but I haven't found any other name composed in the same way (MR of tumert, joy + name of animal). We should search other examples like that.
Ar timlilit a gma,
Imedyazen Cultural Association
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Azul fell-ak a gma Yidir,
The book of Kamel Nait-Zerrad is interesting, however, I am a little skeptical in the etymology he gave about that particular name. When one works on names, he has to check whether his explanation conforms to some etymological patterns, for example, if we say that "It Mnad" is an ethnonym, then we have to check whether there are other Amazigh ethnonyms which have the same pattern (eg. starting with Ayt / Iyt / It / At, etc.).
Nait-Zerrad's etymology seems plausible, but I haven't found any other name composed in the same way (MR of tumert, joy + name of animal). We should search other examples like that.
Ar timlilit a gma,
Imedyazen Cultural Association
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Amastan13
New Member
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Azul fell-ak a gma Agoram,
Voici ce que j'ai trouvé sur Wikipedia concernant le nom de Marrakesh :
"The possible origin of its name could be from the Tamazight (Berber) words mur (n) akuch, which means Land of God. (The root "mur" is nowadays in the Berber languages used only in the feminine form "tamurt"). The same word "mur/mawr" appears in the country Mauritania, but this interpretation is still unproved to this day, and there are other possibilities that are often invoked."
Source : Marrakech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mais ce qui est curieux à propos de cette étymologie c'est le fait que ce thème lexical "mur" ne soit pas féminin, à moins que dans l'amazigh qui était jadis parlé dans cette région, "tamurt" se disait "tmurt" ou "hamurt" (comme ça se prononce dans certains dialectes zénètes de l'Algérie centrale et en chaoui, et donc, on pourrait supposer que la consonne [h] soit tombée).
Ar timlilit a gma
Rzut ghef uden-nnegh === Visitez notre site :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Azul fell-ak a gma Agoram,
Voici ce que j'ai trouvé sur Wikipedia concernant le nom de Marrakesh :
"The possible origin of its name could be from the Tamazight (Berber) words mur (n) akuch, which means Land of God. (The root "mur" is nowadays in the Berber languages used only in the feminine form "tamurt"). The same word "mur/mawr" appears in the country Mauritania, but this interpretation is still unproved to this day, and there are other possibilities that are often invoked."
Source : Marrakech - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mais ce qui est curieux à propos de cette étymologie c'est le fait que ce thème lexical "mur" ne soit pas féminin, à moins que dans l'amazigh qui était jadis parlé dans cette région, "tamurt" se disait "tmurt" ou "hamurt" (comme ça se prononce dans certains dialectes zénètes de l'Algérie centrale et en chaoui, et donc, on pourrait supposer que la consonne [h] soit tombée).
Ar timlilit a gma
Rzut ghef uden-nnegh === Visitez notre site :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Re : Signification Markunda ?
uhuy a gma,
M+rrkwc
http://www.souss.com/forum/espace-actu-abaraz-n-inghmisen/7619-manque-de-serieux-ou-ridicule.html
Other villages with the same name but feminine:
Tamerrakecht : ingr Imd'ghrn d Rich
Tamerrakecht: tamnad't n Figuig
http://www.tageo.com/get_map.php?lat...arrakech&tag=1
Tamerrakecht: tamnad't n Bou Dnib (ayt Izdg)
create-map
Tiwlafin n TAMRRAKCT:
'+'
uhuy a gma,
M+rrkwc
http://www.souss.com/forum/espace-actu-abaraz-n-inghmisen/7619-manque-de-serieux-ou-ridicule.html
Other villages with the same name but feminine:
Tamerrakecht : ingr Imd'ghrn d Rich
Tamerrakecht: tamnad't n Figuig
http://www.tageo.com/get_map.php?lat...arrakech&tag=1
Tamerrakecht: tamnad't n Bou Dnib (ayt Izdg)
create-map
Tiwlafin n TAMRRAKCT:
'+'
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Personaly I think it has an unknown signification, i just gave the translation of the words combined together. But it could be possible more information should be given when writting such books historical sources, antrop etc..
And you r right about the name Marrakech it is to simplistic to explain the signification with the words akuc and amur and also grammaticaly.
Amur in Morocco has different meanings: harpon, divine protection [ from God], part [of...]
Only tamurt means land
And if it really meant the Land of God why does there exist several place names in feminine form ;-) in southern(east)-morocco
Personaly I think it has an unknown signification, i just gave the translation of the words combined together. But it could be possible more information should be given when writting such books historical sources, antrop etc..
And you r right about the name Marrakech it is to simplistic to explain the signification with the words akuc and amur and also grammaticaly.
Amur in Morocco has different meanings: harpon, divine protection [ from God], part [of...]
Only tamurt means land
And if it really meant the Land of God why does there exist several place names in feminine form ;-) in southern(east)-morocco
Amastan13
New Member
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Tanemmirt a gma Idir,
The verb "rkec" is also used in Kabyle, it has a meaning close to that of Middle Moroccan Tamazight :
Rkec [rkwec] : 1- to crush (with your hands), to distort completely.
2- to be crushed, to be smashed (object, car, etc.).
Takerr'ust-nni terkec akk === The car is completely smashed / distorted.
Ar timlilit a gma
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh === Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Tanemmirt a gma Idir,
The verb "rkec" is also used in Kabyle, it has a meaning close to that of Middle Moroccan Tamazight :
Rkec [rkwec] : 1- to crush (with your hands), to distort completely.
2- to be crushed, to be smashed (object, car, etc.).
Takerr'ust-nni terkec akk === The car is completely smashed / distorted.
Ar timlilit a gma
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh === Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Amastan13
New Member
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Azul a gma Idir,
Honestly, I think that the field of explaining the etymology of Amazigh personal names is one of the most difficult fields in Amazigh linguistics. Even the most serious linguists have problems in that.
For example, Mohand Akli Haddadou, a prominent Amazigh researcher here in Algeria, studied the etymology of "Badis", a known Amazigh name. In a book (L'Almanach berbère), he said that it came from the expression :
iba ti-s : his father is absent, from the verb "ba", to be absent + ti-s, his father, both words exist in Tamasheq.
However, in another book of him, entitled "Recueil de prénoms amazighs" (published in 2004), he wrote about the same name that it comes from :
Bedd yis-s === to stand thanks to him (perhaps God ?).
I think that most Amazigh names have been so distorted with time that it has become very difficult to identify their original forms or meanings. Some names are very old, too old to be decyphered, others are also distorted because of pet forms or short forms, exactly as it's the case with many names in other languages.
For example, it's difficult to know what's the meaning of Edwin or Alfred just by tryin to explain them with Modern English. You have to go back several centuries ago in order to know the older form of the language, and even so, it may be still difficult.
Moreover, it's also difficult to guess that Sandy is a pet form of a short form of Alexandra.
Tanemmirt a gma
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh === Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Azul a gma Idir,
Honestly, I think that the field of explaining the etymology of Amazigh personal names is one of the most difficult fields in Amazigh linguistics. Even the most serious linguists have problems in that.
For example, Mohand Akli Haddadou, a prominent Amazigh researcher here in Algeria, studied the etymology of "Badis", a known Amazigh name. In a book (L'Almanach berbère), he said that it came from the expression :
iba ti-s : his father is absent, from the verb "ba", to be absent + ti-s, his father, both words exist in Tamasheq.
However, in another book of him, entitled "Recueil de prénoms amazighs" (published in 2004), he wrote about the same name that it comes from :
Bedd yis-s === to stand thanks to him (perhaps God ?).
I think that most Amazigh names have been so distorted with time that it has become very difficult to identify their original forms or meanings. Some names are very old, too old to be decyphered, others are also distorted because of pet forms or short forms, exactly as it's the case with many names in other languages.
For example, it's difficult to know what's the meaning of Edwin or Alfred just by tryin to explain them with Modern English. You have to go back several centuries ago in order to know the older form of the language, and even so, it may be still difficult.
Moreover, it's also difficult to guess that Sandy is a pet form of a short form of Alexandra.
Tanemmirt a gma
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh === Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Re : Signification Markunda ?
In this article:
Vermondo Brugnatelli, Notes d’onomastique jerbienne et mozabite.(Berber Studies V.8 Rüdiger Köppe Verlag, Köln)
wrote about a place name in Djerba: Sedouikech/Azdyuch
giving some theories on the meaning of it:
...-Imarzizet: Sedwikech mot composé qui veut dire en Berbere "le maitre noir"....
...- Gobsi: locals believe that town was named after a negro called Wikch..sudd (black in Arabic) .....
... a noter que noir, negre évoque dans ces deux essais d'etymology en jerbi est ATCIW...
Vermondo gave a possible explination with the word for God in this region of tamazgha witch is YUCH: azd-yuch.
Ibn Khaldoun mentioned the Sedouikech/Azdyuch they are Ketama imazighen.
In this article:
Vermondo Brugnatelli, Notes d’onomastique jerbienne et mozabite.(Berber Studies V.8 Rüdiger Köppe Verlag, Köln)
wrote about a place name in Djerba: Sedouikech/Azdyuch
giving some theories on the meaning of it:
...-Imarzizet: Sedwikech mot composé qui veut dire en Berbere "le maitre noir"....
...- Gobsi: locals believe that town was named after a negro called Wikch..sudd (black in Arabic) .....
... a noter que noir, negre évoque dans ces deux essais d'etymology en jerbi est ATCIW...
Vermondo gave a possible explination with the word for God in this region of tamazgha witch is YUCH: azd-yuch.
Ibn Khaldoun mentioned the Sedouikech/Azdyuch they are Ketama imazighen.
Amastan13
New Member
Re : Signification Markunda ?
Azul fell-ak a gma Idir,
This etymology is very interesting, although he seems to have difficulties in explaining that toponym
Is the article of Brugnatelli available on the Internet ?
Tanemmirt-nnek
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh --- Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen
Azul fell-ak a gma Idir,
This etymology is very interesting, although he seems to have difficulties in explaining that toponym
Is the article of Brugnatelli available on the Internet ? Tanemmirt-nnek
Rzut ghef udeg-nnegh --- Visit our website :
Tiddukla Tadelsant Imedyazen